seen before is as products age, you see this sequential decline, they got a huge purchase from the education segment and now they have new products coming out. that should help that line better. and obviously the iphones were a little bit better than a lot of people expected. overall, a good report. >> keep asking everyone this. is it a momentum stock or a value stock? >> for me, it's whatever term you want to put on it. if they can give more evidence they can actually return to growth in 2014, it's going to catch buyers. i guess that might be more of a value stock than anything. but at, you know, less than 12 times earnings and the expectation has now risen. ever since this 5c and 5s launch, negative about the 5c, positive about the 5s, but the earnings estimate has gone up a dollar since the products were announced. that should get a higher multiple. >> yeah, hard to get -- it's hard to be both a value and a growth stock, i guess. because if this company starts growing again, if it starts having higher earnings year after year, the multi -- it's going to be just with ha below market multip